1740 and All That

mildred_of_midgard came across some letters from Tido von Knyphausen, older brother of Peter von Keith's wife Oriane, and pieced together some episodes in his life.

Oriane had one older brother who died as a baby, and one older brother, Tido Friedrich, of whom Wikipedia simply says "Went to Batavia." Batavia was in the Dutch East Indies, modern day Jakarta in Indonesia.


( A Knyphausen Satire )

( A Knyphausen Vagabond )

( A Knyphausen Abroad )

In the archives, there is a document or set of documents concerning "The arrest of Baron Tido Friedrich zu Inn- und Knyphausen at the request of his mother." I am planning to attempt to get a copy of this document.

Summary of The Prisoner of St Kilda, by Margaret Macaulay (2009).

( Lady Grange: Her story )

( Her father's story )

( Lady Grange: Fix-it fic? )

Johann Ernst Bernstorff, Danish foreign minister and only equal to Fritz in the eyes of one Stefan Hartmann, was a Hanoverian. Had you studied 1720s diplomacy in as much detail as I did, this would be obvious to you, since G1's minister Bernstorff is a major player in this period, always throwing a wrench in the works of Charles Whitworth's attempts to negotiate a peace between Prussia and Sweden in the Great Northern War. The Bernstorff family is notable for having produced some 5 or so powerful ministers over the course of the 18th century, of whom I know at least three off the top of my head.

( His story )

Summary of Adam Gottlob Moltke's career based on Moltke: Rigets Mægtigste Mand, supplementary to the information in https://rheinsberg.dreamwidth.org/69116.html:

( Rise to power )

( In power )

( Fall from power )

( Retirement and descendants )

I enjoyed the very last sentence of the book, in which Adam Moltke steps down in 1852 and says to Frederik VII, "If Your Majesty should have need of me again, that's why I'm a Moltke."

Author: selenak, cahn
Original discussion: https://cahn.dreamwidth.org/221655.html?thread=5432535#cmt5432535

selenak: I mean, I can't imagine a more stressful position than having to fulfill both Fritz' and Heinrich's sexual and emotional needs at the same time, honestly. Which is probably why it never happened - I mean, real Marwitz may very well have been Heinrich's first love, i.e. before Heinrich got into the poly habit, but he definitely was never Fritz' sole pretty distraction. (Also, in the relevant era, post Silesia 2, Fredersdorf was of course alive and (relatively) well.) Meanwhile, even boastful Kalckreuth who is convinced he could have had Fritz (and that Heinrich should have been more grateful) doesn't imply he could have managed Fritz and Heinrich at the same time, let alone without any other boytoys. And Fritz loathed Kaphengst, who might have had the self confidence and lack of common sense to try such a mighty feat.

( Discussion )

For cahn.

FW: I will put a bear in Gundling's room!

Roman Emperor Elagabalus, many centuries earlier: I will put bears in everyone's room!¹

Ivan the Terrible: I will set bears on people just to see what happens!²

Charles XII: I will get the bear so drunk it falls out the window to its death!

Gian Gastone: Ooh, you have bears? I want to see the bears! Bring me the bears.

*shortly thereafter*

GG: I'm so turned on rn. I want to have sex with--

Mildred: Please don't say the bear.

GG: The bear-handler. He's such a big brawny guy, yum.

Mildred: Oh, thank god.

GG: Also his two young assistants, also hot stuff.

Mildred: Still could be worse.

GG: The bear-handler and his boys³ will be added to my collection of male prostitutes.

Mildred: I already know about the collection of male prostitutes and so am not batting an eye!

GG: One night, the bear-handler will be drunk in his room when I get a hankering for him. I'm drunk also, it goes without saying. I will have him brought to me. But he's so drunk he doesn't want to get out of bed. But I'm the Grand Duke, and my pimp/boyfriend/life partner Giuliano will force him to come to my room. For more drinking, of course!

Mildred: Yep, sounds about right.

GG: We're having a great time, right up until I unleash a "prodigious vomit" all over his face and chest. I'm still having a great time, because I totally have a vomit fetish!

Mildred: ...Okay, you got me. I figured out you had an alcoholism fetish, but this one I didn't see coming.

GG: But he's furious and starts beating me black and blue to within an inch of my life. I bleat a little but am not really up for defending myself. Giuliano and other servants overhear the commotion and come running to save me from imminent death.

Mildred: Well, I don't blame him...

GG: Neither do I! In fact, he doesn't get punished at all and continues to draw his salary and live peaceably in Florence, probably because elsewhere in this narrative it's been recounted that I'm totally into getting beaten up, and I make the Ruspanti do it to me all the time!

Mildred: This narrative isn't very reliable, is it?

GG and Giuliano Dami, in unison: God no. Please treat this anonymous manuscript like the National Enquirer of the 18th century and don't believe anything you read about us in it. Unlike Harold Acton, who took it as gospel in his book.⁴

FW: My bears are the best attested!

Mildred and Gundling: ...That's not exactly a point in your favor.

Notes:

1. This is from a source that's so dubious that it's questionable how much it was even ever meant as history, so you shouldn't believe this happened so much as be aware that this is a story that was told and some people have believed it.

2. According to Massie in his Peter the Great bio. Not from any reliable source on Ivan the Terrible, which I have yet to read (but am starting to look into).

3. Called "boys", but the ages of the other "boys" that are given in the text as GG's prostitutes are around twenty, so not necessarily pedophilia here.

4. About which more when I've done some more research in the Italian books that draw on actual archival material that I recently bought and have started reading.

Later addendum:

If you give August III a bear, this happens:

"Numbers of wild beasts, taken in cages into the middle of the thickets in this charming spot, and forced to climb on little paths of planks between two walls, to the top of trees on the edge of the canal, were precipitated through a trapdoor into the water thirty feet below, and thus gave the King the chance, should he wish for it, of shooting wolves, boars and bears in the air. Hounds were waiting for them at the foot of the trees, to pursue them on land and water until the time came when the King thought fit to slay them. One of these bears, finding a boat, climbed on to the prow, in order to get away from the hounds. A young Rzewuski, brother of the Marshal, and Saul, chief clerk in the Saxon Foreign Office, in drawing back to the stern of the boat against the boatman who was steering, managed to make the craft heel over so far that she capsized. The bear for a second time described a circle in the air, and fell in the water close to these men, who got off with a fright, and gave the King much amusement by their adventure."

Courtesy of Poniatowski's memoirs, cited in the biography of Hanbury-Williams.

I *guess* it's better than locking Gundling up with bears and firecrackers, which the daily Frederician emails have just reminded us happened on October 10 (1716).

But from 2023, it's hilarious to read about! Flying bears catapulting through the air! What will 18th century monarchs with bears think of next?

As summarized by Selena, Ziebura's take on the episode in which Heinrich is offered a crown:

August III of Poland & Saxony had died in 1763, and a polish delegation lead by Andreas Mokranowski showed up in Prussia to offer the crown to Heinrich. Now, not only was this when Fritz and Heinrich had just had one of their frequent bust-ups (this one involved the immortal dialogue "mon cher, you just don't understand" "Oh, I think I'm old enough to understand" (exit Heinrich to Rheinsberg, seriously, this from two men who'd just won the 7 Years War), but it also conflicted with Catherine's desire to put her boyfriend, the later unexpectedly self determined Poniatowski on the Polish throne. Fritz, who did not want a new conflict with Russia, therefore forebade Andreas Mokranowski to as much as speak to Heinrich. Who didn't find out until becoming buddies with Catherine years later when negotioting the first Separation of Poland.

As part of mildred_of_midgard's Poland research, she across a 1905 article by Volz that says, "Not so fast."

Ziebura's account, according to Volz, is the traditional picture repeated by historian after historian, all of whom are copying each other (Volz puts some passages side by side to show the copying evidence), but this claim, as stated, goes back to some very unreliable sources that get everything wrong. The most reliable sources we have, which are unfortunately not as primary source as we would like, but summaries of speeches made orally, have a slightly different take.

First, some political background: There were two parties in Poland, the pro-Russian party led by the Czartoryskis and Poniatowskis (remember that they intermarried), aka "The Family", and the pro-French "Patriots" led by Branicki and Prince Radziwill. When Catherine sent Russian troops to occupy Poland in 1764, Branicki tried to defy them, but he and his troops were forced to flee to Hungary. Then he decided to ask Russia's ally Prussia to mediate.

Right as this was happening, Fritz was finally signing the treaty with Catherine, in which he pledged himself to support Poniatowski as king.

Branicki sent Mokranowski to Berlin to ask Fritz to do two things: 1) Prevent any alteration of the traditional Polish liberties that were aimed at strengthening the monarch's powers, 2) mediate between the two parties.

We have the goals of the delegation and Fritz's handwritten marginal notes in reply, and there is not a single syllable about Heinrich or offering the crown to him.

The only sources we have that mention Heinrich are reports that claim to go back to Mokranowski. An anonymously published life of Heinrich (1784) says that Mokranowski came not from Branicki but from a Polish confederation, and that the purpose of the delegation was to offer Heinrich the crown, and, worst of all, he dates the episode to the First Polish Partition, several years later!

Another anonymous life of Heinrich (1809) copies from it (both the language and the same mistakes show this), but adds the detail that Mokranowski made two trips to Berlin, one in 1764 and one in 1768, with the same request, and was rejected twice. Volz says we know for a fact that Mokranowski only made one trip, in 1764, and that there is clearly a lot of fictionalization happening here.

The most reliable sources we have are summaries made of the speech Mokranowski made when he got back to Poland, when he reported what he and Fritz had said orally. (Unfortunately, we don't have Mokranowski's direct take.)

There is one by a Polish noble named Mosczynki and an anonymous one. In what they include, they pretty much agree, but the anonymous one, which includes more detail, is the only one to mention Heinrich.

Then there's a book on the history of Poland by a Frenchman named Rulhière (cited extensively by de Broglie as well as the H-W bio), that also mentions Heinrich. Now, Rulhière had been in Russia in 1762 and had written an eyewitness account of the Revolution (that Wikipedia tells me was only published posthumously, as Catherine kept trying to destroy it), but he was *not* an eyewitness of the 1764 events. His account of the 1764 delegation to Fritz is largely based on Mosczynki's account, but it includes some extra details not in there (like Heinrich). There is some evidence he knew Mokranowski personally, especially since Mokranowski stayed in Paris from August 1769. However, Rulhière also makes some mistakes in his account, like saying Mokranowski went to Berlin on his own accord, rather than on behalf of Branicki.

A final source that mentions Heinrich is Baron Goltz's report from Paris 1769, Goltz being the Prussian envoy to France (whom I mentioned recently in response to Selena's question) and former Prussian envoy to Peter III.

So, to recap, our three reliable-seeming sources that mention Heinrich are:
- An anonymous recap of Mokranowski's speech to the Poles by a Pole.
- A summary of this episode by a Frenchman who may have known Mokranowski in Paris in 1769.
- An envoy report written several years later by a Prussian who knew Mokranowski during his stay in Paris in 1769, and wrote to Fritz summarizing what Mokranowksi had told him of what happened in 1764.

These three sources agree that 1) the main point of the embassy had nothing to do with Heinrich, 2) Heinrich's name came up in passing as a possible candidate.

Rulhière's version (which has mistakes), has Mokranowski saying, "Give us a king, give us your brother Prince Henri." Goltz's version has him saying, "Why does Your Majesty not want to give us a king from your own hand? The Poles would accept with joy and confidence someone like Prince Henri." In both accounts, Fritz responds, "He doesn't want to become Catholic." [Lol, Fritz.]

Finally, Fritz's reply to Goltz says, "Mokranowksi did indeed mention the proposal that you included in your last letter."

Critically, says Volz, there is no mention of a formal offer, just an idea, and Goltz specifically has Henri included just as an example of someone they (meaning the anti-Russian party) would accept.

In conclusion, it sort of happened, but there was no delegation sent to Fritz *in order to* ask for Heinrich as king, he just sort of came up in conversation as a possibility.

We all agree Fritz noped right out of that, though. ;)

Given that the guy who casually mentioned Heinrich was representing a party that had just been kicked out of Poland by occupying Russian troops, and given Kunersdorf and Zorndorf, I can see why Fritz did not want to touch the clusterfuck that is Poland and a war with Russia with a ten-foot pole in 1764. But you can tell he very much doesn't trust Heinrich to do the right thing here: Rulhière's account has him saying, "No, he really doesn't [want to become Catholic], and his stance on this is so firm that there's no point in talking to him; I will protect you from seeing it."

In *other* interesting Fritz-and-Poland news, I read Volz's account of Heinrich's maneuverings to end up in St. Petersburg, and indeed, it is convincing that Fritz did not send Heinrich to Catherine to propose a partition, but that this was Heinrich's initiative...but I have since turned up something that Volz does not mention in that article (unless I missed it in a footnote), but seems incredibly relevant:

In February 1769, Fritz proposed a partition of Poland to his envoy in St. Petersburg. He tried to pass it off as the idea of Count Lynar (remember, the former Danish ambassador to Russia who lost a game of intrigue with Moltke), who was in Berlin at the time to marry his daughter to a Kamecke, but my source (a 2022 book on the Russo-Turkish war of 1768-1774) says that it was Fritz's idea, as no reference to any such thing has been found in Lynar's papers. I have no source for the claim that it's *not* in Lynar's papers, but I have read the original letter from Fritz to his envoy Solms in 1769 in the Political Correspondence, so that's legit.

We've also seen that Fritz, in his political testament of 1768, told his successor that Poland must be eaten by an artichoke: leaf by leaf, and he was very interested in getting that land bridge from Pomerania to East Prussia.

But Catherine said no in 1769, and apparently by 1771, Fritz didn't think it was going to happen and was playing cautious. What's interesting is that historians will *either* say the partition was Fritz's idea and he "sent" Heinrich (which is wrong), or they'll say it was Heinrich's idea (or that it was proposed to him at Catherine's court and he started selling it to Fritz) without mentioning that Fritz himself had actually proposed it just 2 years before. (Given that, he may genuinely have believed later on that just a few months later he was chatting about a partition with Joseph, since Russia and Poland and what to do about the situation was a major topic of their discussion.) I actually had to read Norman Davies, of all people, to see that Fritz had made this proposal in 1769 (and then I couldn't find it in the P.C., because he gets the date wrong and doesn't name Solms), and then get this book Amazon recommended on the Russo-Turkish War to tell me how to find the actual proposal by Fritz.

So the true story seems to be: Fritz had the idea first, but got pushback and gave up on it, and wasn't prepared to re-adopt the idea two years later because he was expecting more pushback. (If he thought it was just Heinrich's idea, it's understandable that Fritz didn't realize how much support the idea now had at the Russian court, because of his previous experience, whereas Heinrich, who was there in St. Petersburg, realized how much had changed in 2 years.)

You know, if it didn't seem out of character for Fritz, I would still wonder...if someone makes you a proposal, refusing it because you want more but think you will lose face if you ask directly, if your BATNA is good enough, is a known negotiating technique that I have used myself. And it worked out for Fritz the same way it worked out for me: they started offering him more to catch his interest, and instead of getting one territory (the initial offer), he got the whole land bridge that he needed.

But I don't know that Fritz had that kind of subtlety, and it definitely doesn't seem like he and Heinrich worked this out in advance. He seems genuinely annoyed that little brother has decided to go to St. Petersburg and, as we saw, says, "I could have explained so many things in person." (Except you never would, Fritz, because you would rather poke your own eyes out than entrust Heinrich with a negotiation in a country out of your reach.)

Oh, and I meant to tie Branicki and Mokranowski back to The King's Secret. Remember when I wrote:

Then there are intrigues in the Polish Diet! The upshot is that the French come out on top for the present: they manage to get a powerful noble to defect to the French side, and prevent an alliance with Austria and Russia.

, which happened back in 1752? The powerful noble who defects to the French side is Branicki, and Mokranowski, according to Broglie, is the guy who gets him to defect. It's very dramatic:

The Act of Confederation was placed in a tent, which was speedily besieged by a crowd eager to sign the document. Mokranowski, having cleared a passage for himself, suddenly advanced to the table, as if with the intention of adding his own signature, caught up the paper, and, holding it tight against his breast, declared that it should only be taken from him with his life. Then, followed by the multitude attracted by this daring action, he went straight to the dwelling of the Grand General, and there, in a loud voice which could be heard by every one, he explained to the aged patriot what would be the consequences of the proceeding to which he was about to commit himself. He showed him that behind the National Confederation was a foreign invasion, only awaiting the signal to commence; a Russian army already collected on the frontier and ready to march in aid of civil war; and, as a result of this odious intervention of the foreigner, not only a Treaty of Alliance contrary to the interest of Poland, but a revolution by which the ancient liberties of the citizens would be sacrificed to the royal power. Every one knows how versatile are the masses--" Every assembly is a mob," said Cardinal de Retz--even an assembly of nobles like that which the young speaker was addressing. The passion in his face, the fire of his language, spread like an electric shock through the crowd; and, at the last moment, his happy allusion to the designs of the Czartoryski, which were already suspected, touched each member of the assembly on a sensitive point, and a universal clamour arose. Yielding to the popular enthusiasm, the Grand General rose, and, clasping Mokranowski in his arms, thanked him for having saved the country, while the young man tore the document, which he still held, to pieces, and trod upon the fragments.

The Grand General is Branicki.

Unfortunately, the H-W biographer says H-W's dispatch home says the defection happened for more boring reasons, and that this episode goes back to Rulhière. If you read The King's Secret and the H-W bio, you will constantly see the former uncritically accepting Rulhière's take, and the latter claiming Rulhière is guilty of pro-French bias, and saying that if you read H-W's and the Comte de Broglie's actual envoy reports, you get a more realistic picture.

( Salon discusses )